Curse

MisterB · Sep 08, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombguard321

Maybe they learned their lesson over the thunderhead keep monk strike :-) but at least heroes fix that.

The henchmen made the THK monk strike ineffective and irrelevant, unless the party leader didn't know what they were doing. Heroes are not required anywhere in Prophecies normal mode, and never have been. They just accelerate success and allow completion of hard mode content (excepting BLA, as far as I know).

dancing gnome · Sep 08, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

The henchmen made the THK monk strike ineffective and irrelevant, unless the party leader didn't know what they were doing. Heroes are not required anywhere in Prophecies normal mode, and never have been. They just accelerate success and allow completion of hard mode content (excepting BLA, as far as I know).

Thunderhead Keep was known as the noob filter for a reason. Back in the day there was no PvX wiki so it wasn't uncommon to find incredibly terribad party bars. Players were incredibly inefficient, many didn't have elite skills yet, 4 out of 8 people didn't have infused armour (it's not that different these days) and the skill pools were far smaller. Over time the mission has become SIGNIFICANTLY easy as many of the above factors have changed. Player have better bars, more skills to become more efficient, most players know what they are doing and the mission has never changed. Player bars were buffed but monster bars don't have the luxury of mixing around skills from all campaigns and taking advantage of the new flavour of the month builds. The henchmen have also become significantly better since launch, so while it was certainly not impossible back in the day without human monks, I think you are understating the difficulty most teams faced compared to today. The mission didn't change but the players did.

Wish Swiftdeath · Sep 09, 2010, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Thunderhead Keep was known as the noob filter for a reason. Back in the day there was no PvX wiki so it wasn't uncommon to find incredibly terribad party bars. Players were incredibly inefficient, many didn't have elite skills yet, 4 out of 8 people didn't have infused armour (it's not that different these days) and the skill pools were far smaller. Over time the mission has become SIGNIFICANTLY easy as many of the above factors have changed. Player have better bars, more skills to become more efficient, most players know what they are doing and the mission has never changed. Player bars were buffed but monster bars don't have the luxury of mixing around skills from all campaigns and taking advantage of the new flavour of the month builds. The henchmen have also become significantly better since launch, so while it was certainly not impossible back in the day without human monks, I think you are understating the difficulty most teams faced compared to today. The mission didn't change but the players did.

This, try vanquishing zones with proph only skills, not impossible but much harder

Absolute Destiny · Sep 09, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Question for the dedicated Heal/Prot monks on the thread:

Is it considered noobish/stupid for a non-monk player to bring at least one can-heal-other skill?

I have a N/Rt, an E/Rt, and a Mes/Rt who use Weapon of Warding with a little investment in Restoration as an "OMG the monk is dying!" emergency healing spell.

Also comes in handy in missions with stupid NPCs that have to be protected (read: almost all of Factions).

My W/Mo and D/Mo also packs Healing Breeze for this same reason.

I don't PuG, and rarely even play missions with my guildies unless I wipe multiple times with H/H.

bitchbar player · Sep 09, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Bringing WoW is not bad and can be useful but most of the not needed. Healing breeze is always bad (apart from 55 monk).

Silmar Alech · Sep 09, 2010, 03:29 PM // 15:29

It's not noobish, but it's not necessary either. Class-inherent self-heal support may be ok. For example something like Lion's Comfort for the Warrior or Signet of Lost Souls or Hexer's Vigor for the Necromancer. Often, it's a wasted slot for damage dealers, but ok.
But as soon as you sacrifice attribute points for that, which are then missing from your attack attributes and weaken your attacks/spells, it's bad in my opinion. As a monk, I rather have my team members fully go damage.

Squire Heats · Sep 12, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

In some missions with pugs, its better to let a stupid player die as you can end up spending all your energy healing them and then as a result your more likely to die.

Hence after about 3-4 mins you would know who is worth healing...would throw some healing the stupid persons way but not to the point all energy is lost

Nekodesu · Sep 18, 2010, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I heal everything that over extend, because just cause I'm a monk, doesn't mean I need to be a bitch. And I feel a good monk wont act like a 14 years old who's pissed cause somebody doesn't do what I want them to. I don't feel a need to return the favour. I rarely ever meet warriors who over extend, TBH I see the fault often by the monks in MANY CASES. Monks are also supposed to pay attention to what's happening, and since warriors/assasins are melee they usually will run first into battle.

Alot of people who play monks think they are extremely good, almost holy because you play a healing class. I often see that alot of the monks who pug, in general have incredibly retarded builds, think that they are so needed they wont get kicked, and actually do a pretty bad job as a monk.

My boyfriend got called a suicide warrior because he 'overextended', this monks view of overextending was about a few meters away from him, This monk was complaining, about him because in most cases, the easiest way to blame your bad healing is just to blame it on somebody who dies. Like calling them a f****** noob.

My boyfriends main character, and in many ways his only character, is a monk. He's been playing it for 4 years, and he's done GvG for WM, and he's aswell GWAMM. He really knows all the badsides about being a monk in a pug or in PvP what so ever, but he still doesn't call anybody ANYTHING mean, or stop healing somebody cause he feels the need to be 12.

And neither do I.

End · Sep 19, 2010, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

This, try vanquishing zones with proph only skills, not impossible but much harder

There was also no Hard Mode back when it was only Prophecies.

Wish Swiftdeath · Sep 20, 2010, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

There was also no Hard Mode back when it was only Prophecies.

Agreed but it still shows how overpowered all the skills have become, remember when you couldn't self target with woh? When people used orison?

Age · Sep 20, 2010, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Thunderhead Keep was known as the noob filter for a reason. Back in the day there was no PvX wiki so it wasn't uncommon to find incredibly terribad party bars. Players were incredibly inefficient, many didn't have elite skills yet, 4 out of 8 people didn't have infused armour (it's not that different these days) and the skill pools were far smaller. Over time the mission has become SIGNIFICANTLY easy as many of the above factors have changed. Player have better bars, more skills to become more efficient, most players know what they are doing and the mission has never changed. Player bars were buffed but monster bars don't have the luxury of mixing around skills from all campaigns and taking advantage of the new flavour of the month builds. The henchmen have also become significantly better since launch, so while it was certainly not impossible back in the day without human monks, I think you are understating the difficulty most teams faced compared to today. The mission didn't change but the players did.

It was also a fact that some got a run to Droks and by passed the Crystal Desert altogether to get a few good known elites and didn't have their full 200 attribute points.I had some one in my guild like that back then who after me saying No about getting Droks armour before I left.

^I wouldn't say that as Aegis isn't what it use to be and yes we used Orisons but there was already Glimmer of Light out by then.

afya · Sep 20, 2010, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

This, try vanquishing zones with proph only skills, not impossible but much harder

i havent think of this b4 u mention. it would be damn hard to VQ some of the 4men map. That is, in fact, a flaw of multi-chapter setup.

Undead Cheese · Sep 20, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

I heal everything that over extend, because just cause I'm a monk, doesn't mean I need to be a bitch. And I feel a good monk wont act like a 14 years old who's pissed cause somebody doesn't do what I want them to. I don't feel a need to return the favour. I rarely ever meet warriors who over extend, TBH I see the fault often by the monks in MANY CASES. Monks are also supposed to pay attention to what's happening, and since warriors/assasins are melee they usually will run first into battle.

Alot of people who play monks think they are extremely good, almost holy because you play a healing class. I often see that alot of the monks who pug, in general have incredibly retarded builds, think that they are so needed they wont get kicked, and actually do a pretty bad job as a monk.

My boyfriend got called a suicide warrior because he 'overextended', this monks view of overextending was about a few meters away from him, This monk was complaining, about him because in most cases, the easiest way to blame your bad healing is just to blame it on somebody who dies. Like calling them a f****** noob.

My boyfriends main character, and in many ways his only character, is a monk. He's been playing it for 4 years, and he's done GvG for WM, and he's aswell GWAMM. He really knows all the badsides about being a monk in a pug or in PvP what so ever, but he still doesn't call anybody ANYTHING mean, or stop healing somebody cause he feels the need to be 12.

And neither do I.

So you will heal everything that over extends, puts the rest of your team at danger of being wiped, and wastes your energy because you don't want to be a ''bitch'' or a ''12 year old''?

Okay.

Nekodesu · Sep 20, 2010, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

So you will heal everything that over extends, puts the rest of your team at danger of being wiped, and wastes your energy because you don't want to be a ''bitch'' or a ''12 year old''?

Okay.

I will not heal EVERYTHING, but I will TRY TO HEAL a warrior if he overextends. If he dies, then alright, I perhaps wasn't paying attention or he was considered a bad player.

There's usually 2-3 monks in a party, I monk with my boyfriend, and we do something called communication 8D Which means, if I run for the war I will say so, while he will watch the rest of the team. Usually warriors don't run into another mob when we're fighting one already, atleast I haven't experienced that. AND as for that, we're good monks, and we work well togheter. If a team experienced difficulties with killing a group of enemies I'd say the team is bad, not the warrior, or monks alone.

I don't know about you, but I don't really have alot of problems with keeping a party alive

snaek · Sep 20, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

monks should be able to bitch at a warrior for not drawing the initial aggro. however, the warrior should also be able to bitch at the monk for not pre-protting him before he does so.

i agree with nekodesu somewhat. a lot of monks (well people just in general) don't pay attention to the battlefield. they watch redbars and thats all they do. gw is a very positional game, and a monk (warrior or most other classes) who doesn't pay attention to position may likely be bad.

Xiaquin · Sep 20, 2010, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

/snip

I'd be a lot less tense as a monk if I had the other healer in the room or over voice that I could relay with, so you do have an advantage. But you are right and I agree when you say you make the best effort to cover your party. For example, if there is a sin that jumps way out in front and Dashes, I would never just watch him die on aggro, I would try to run ahead and pre-prot, knowing he/she is probably gonna die. It's not difficult and sometimes you're just a sheep dog trying to corral everyone through a mission.

Nekodesu · Sep 20, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I'd be a lot less tense as a monk if I had the other healer in the room or over voice that I could relay with, so you do have an advantage. But you are right and I agree when you say you make the best effort to cover your party. For example, if there is a sin that jumps way out in front and Dashes, I would never just watch him die on aggro, I would try to run ahead and pre-prot, knowing he/she is probably gonna die. It's not difficult and sometimes you're just a sheep dog trying to corral everyone through a mission.

Yeah, I agree with this. But ofc, I also will get angry if the assasin/warrior repeatedly keeps aggroing too much or keeps running in and die. But ofc I will try to keep him alive. One thing tho is that I mostly see assasins act like 'wammo's' or the ones who run in and die, and I think even the best monk in the world has difficulties with keeping a squishy assasin alive, even more than I would think a war xD But this is when it comes to low-end PvE, I expect ALOT more from people doing high-end(To me low-end pve also includes doing HM missions, because lets face it, most of them are REALLY easy), cause I think that when you do a HM mission expecting anybody to be smart/experienced is... Well, unreasonable in many cases <_<;

I have that advantage, with voice, indeed. I admit that for people who don't voice when they monk togheter/with somebody they got a big disadvantage.

But yeah, I just REALLY needed to voice my opinion on how BAD alot of people are at monking in general... >_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

monks should be able to bitch at a warrior for not drawing the initial aggro. however, the warrior should also be able to bitch at the monk for not pre-protting him before he does so.

i agree with nekodesu somewhat. a lot of monks (well people just in general) don't pay attention to the battlefield. they watch redbars and thats all they do. gw is a very positional game, and a monk (warrior or most other classes) who doesn't pay attention to position may likely be bad.

I also agree with this aswell. Both should be able to bitch at each other no matter what role they play. And I have bitched, ALOT. And I still do, cause sometimes I feel I just have to u_u But I feel it doesn't work anyways so often I just talk bad about the person to myself(lol) C:

dark4190 · Sep 20, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

When I pug-monk, I always bring the same exact bar. It's a "redbar" build, but I don't feel pugs deserve any better. It has no condition removal and no hex removal. If theres ever a second monk, I tell them to bring hex/cond removal because I can't be bothered with it.

I used to always try and bring this awesome build that could handle every situation. Then I started to notice that people didn't really care what hex or condition was on them, just as long as they lived. So I made a build that does just that- keeps them alive.

I've gotten loads of compliments on my "awesome monking" and I sometimes laugh because all I'd do is abuse Protective Spirit or Glyph of Lesser + Heal Party.

Anyways.. about my Inner Monk Demon..
Don't you all remember when UA was maintainable? Sort of like it still is in PvP? Imagine that and Vengence. It's an irratiable combo. Someones annoying you? Let them die. Then res them with UA. Then cancle it and cast Vengence on them.. then watch them run around with only 30 seconds to live. Then res them with UA to ensure no one else hard-res them.

This is most humorous when they have NO IDEA how they're dying. I'm the nice guy who says "Idk, but I'll res you"

Undead Cheese · Sep 20, 2010, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

I will not heal EVERYTHING, but I will TRY TO HEAL a warrior if he overextends. If he dies, then alright, I perhaps wasn't paying attention or he was considered a bad player.

So when I get a stupid Warrior that for example uses ''Charge!'' and rushes ahead of everyone into a full group of Monsters, and dies within about three seconds, that's my fault for not chasing him or pre protting him?

Nekodesu · Sep 20, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

So when I get a stupid Warrior that for example uses ''Charge!'' and rushes ahead of everyone into a full group of Monsters, and dies within about three seconds, that's my fault for not chasing him or pre protting him?

No, and neither have I said it would be your fault. If you're not paying attentiont and he rushes into a group, it CAN BE your fault if you're not paying attentiont, or for example that you're in general a bad monk. But you're obviously not getting the point.

It has alot to do with the situation, if he's miles away from you running in and dying then obviously it is his fault, he should have paid attention to the fact that the monks are not with him. But yet again, it might a well be your fault. You're a monk for a reason, to keep people alive.

But hey, it's about the situation really.